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I write verbose posts about polyamory, love, lust, and self-discovery on my other blog Victoria's Imaginarium.

Friday, May 17, 2013

Who is the real victim? (SEQUEL)

Hello hello I am back!!! :D

Hey I can hear your inner monologue—I thought the drama has died off and now you're making a sequel? why are you so obsessed in th

Ah ah ちょっと待って, you think I would let my previous post ended up hanging there without a conclusion or an epic finale?

I already involve myself anyway. And I am a blogger, what do you expect?

The reason I am writing yet another post is like this.

After the many episodes of this drama, Rudy, Kylie and I were trolling you-know-who on Twitter. Rudy who started the #apalagihanamahu (ps: this is how a hashtag works btw, no space or punctuation mark in between words!) trend deleted his tweets after 2 hours or so, but Kylie and I didn't delete ours.

Two days after, we received this message from her:

So we replied and she replied too. I will attach the full conversation later in this post.

The point of this sequel is, in our conversation we confronted her about what the drama and she gave her defense. Although not very convinced, I must admit that her replies did challenge me to doubt my earlier judgment. If I had sided the wrong person and influenced people with my stance, I won't be proud of it. Worst is, it means that I have despised and trolled the real victim. I do not wish that this is the case.

So I decided to reset my judgment from scratch and look at the whole situation again from an as-neutral-as-possible viewpoint.

And then I realized that as-neutral-as-possible viewpoint might not be good enough. I was neutral in the beginning, and as more evidence and contradictions popped up, I was no longer neutral anymore. I can't possibly be 100% neutral with my knowledge of all the evidence I have seen.

So how about this.

How about I re-look at all the claims again from the beginning, assuming that she was framed.

Which means, I will assume that what she told us about being sick and all was real, and that the boyfriend's confirmation about this was also real.

Then I will try thinking from her perspective a perspective of someone framed, then see if it makes sense.

Fair enough? Let's begin :)

Put aside the earlier bring-guy-home issue, and whatsoever other common issues that most roommates have, the real controversy ignited when Fly "found" the missing products she bought for her sister and friends in her room.

From Fly's claims, after she "found" these 11 identical products, she arranged them on the floor in her room and left a note.

Dear Xxxx,
After your permission to enter your room, I found these things that are similar to my package that was stolen 2 weeks ago. Kindly show me the proof of purchase of these things to me. No BBW is not available in M'sia so does of the other stuff. With all due respect police report will be made if you fail to do so. Thanks sweety!

Supposed she was framed:

Does this make sense?
Let's see if we can find valid explanation for the below 5 contradictions which put her at disadvantage. 

Contradiction 1:

How can she prove her innocence then, if Fly really makes a police report? She had no way to prove that she did not know how these things showed up in her room!

Should she throw them away? Better not, if so Fly will say that she did steal her things and try to destroy the evidence. Or said she purposely destroy her properties.

Wait, if she had never even seen them and never took them, she had never placed her fingers on them.

Best thing to do is to leave them as they are on the floor and let the police prove that she had never even touched them before, which then prove her innocence.

Why she did not leave the items untouched or return them, if those are not hers?

It could be possible that she was too mad. she was framed and she found it hard to nicely return the items put in her room to the framer. She didn't see why she could not throw away foreign items that appeared in her room! She didn't care about police report because once she believed that once she threw them away Fly would have no evidence to make a police report. Fly's attempt to frame her would then be unsuccessful!
Does this possibility make sense? 
YES. Reasonable.

Contradiction 2:

Her first status on this incident was about other roommates issues and "false accusation on the coincidence that we are using the same face wash" and nothing related to "I was framed."

Click to enlarge

I mean, if I decided to make our controversies public on FB due to anger (as she claimed), I would for sure include the biggest one, which is being framed and threatened with police report that is perhaps 10 times more serious than all other issues added together.

Why didn't she?

(1) She forgot to mention it, or/and (2) she didn't think being framed is the most serious issue, or/and (3) she just had her own reason.
Does this possibility make sense?
Yes if you really want to force it... But it makes more sense if I assume that she is guilty. Actually, why bother listing all the small issues when what really made my accumulation of anger explode is this crazy framing attempt?! Even if she was really so angry that she decided to list out all her dissatisfaction towards Fly, I cannot think of a reason why she would skip this biggest issue between them.

Contradiction 3:

She posted a photo of the products she claimed are hers to prove the false accusation by Fly (note that this was before Fly posted anything).

Click to enlarge

Her boyfriend said they have never seen those items. 

One can only be so sure that she never saw those if she never bought similar/identical products. But she claimed that she bought the mist set 3 for $10 from Bath and Body Works. 

Fly rebutted that she never claimed that those were from The Body Shop. She specified in the written note "BBW" (stands for Bath & Body Works).

Which is true, her claim and her rebuttal? We cannot tell as there is no evidence for either side.

But the more important question here is,

so had she seen the 11 items before, or never???

Possibility 1:
What he meant "never seen" only applies to the other 8 items but excludes these 3 items. That 3 items on the floor in Fly's photo was actually hers. Fly thought that her set is hers, not knowing that actually the set she bought online went missing mysteriously and that she wrongly accused her!
Does this possibility make sense?
YES. But then this means that it was not a framing attempt but a misunderstanding?

Possibility 2:
They really never saw those 11 items on the floor in her room before, but she did own a set of products identical to the ones put on the floor, coincidentally newly bought too and never/rarely used yet. 
Does this possibility make sense?
If so and if I were her, I will prove that it's mere coincidence by taking a photo of my own set and the set Fly used to frame me arranged side by side, together in the same photo. 
Maybe this idea just didn't cross her mind?
Maybe. Or maybe she couldn't do so because she already threw away Fly's set and only has her own sets now. And also, maybe she couldn't give proof of purchase of her own set because she has thrown away the receipt! Sadly no evidence to prove all the maybe's... whereas Fly did have the proof of purchase, which rationalized her reason to suspect what found in her room are hers.

Contradiction 4:

Fly rebutted that the Tea Tree Oil serum she claimed to be hers is in dark-colored bottle and the evidence she came out with is in white/clear bottle. She also claimed that several MAC foundation creams she owned were samples she got from Macy, although what Fly claimed ownership on are not foundation creams but lipsticks, eye shadow palette and paint pot. 

Why would her make herself suspicious by providing irrelevant proof?

Maybe Fly did claim ownership on the white/clear bottle serum and the MAC sample too!

Does this possibility make sense?
Yes I guess, but no proof for either side.

Contradiction 5:

Move on another item not in the photo, which she mentioned it before Fly posted anything.

The facial wash in question here is:

"Tea Tree Skin Cleansing Facial Wash"

This facial wash and Item 1 to 6 mentioned above are from The Body Shop.

Fly asked for the bar code of the ones she claimed she owns, so that The Body Shop can check whether the bar code match hers who went missing.

She kept backing away saying that Fly would destroy her items and she didn't wanna give Fly the chance to do so. Even when people offered to be the middleman to only take picture of the bar code. Even when people asked her boyfriend to just type out the bar code. Both did not require handing the items to Fly. She still rejected, saying she did not want to entertain her

Now that people do not think it is gonna prove anything anymore, since she could have bought new identical product to replaced the stolen ones if those are really Fly's, she finally came out with a more convincing explanation.


I suppose what she meant was,
"Truth is, if I give her the bar code, with all those times she's been in my room, she could just switch have switched them with her things for the picture."

Does this possibility make sense?
Yes. It is not very convincing because if this is her true worry since the beginning, it should be on top of her head and she surely could right away give this reason so when people questioned her for her rejection to hand over the bar codes. Makes you wonder, if this is the case, why now only she voiced it out?

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, read again:

(I really am trying hard to valid-ize her claims and rationalize why she couldn't prove her claims, but the deeper I dig the more contradictions I noticed)

"Truth is, if I give her the bar code, with all those times she's been in my room, she could just switch have switched them with her things for the picture."


I thought the boyfriend claimed they had never seen the items???

Now she said Fly could have switched them for the picture???

Means she is claiming that other than BBW body mistsshe also owns The Body Shop products identical to the ones in the picture???

Fly framed her not by merely putting her product in her room. What Fly did was switching hers with hersSadly she cannot tell whether it's her original ones or new ones Fly switched with because ALL her original ones were coincidentally newly bought and never used too!
Does it make sense?
Yes only if she can provide her proof of purchase!
Maybe she could not provide proof of purchase because she bought them in store and did not keep the printed receipt?
The Body Shop nearest from here is in Chicago. If she could not prove that she had been to Chicago recently, there was no way she could get them in-store. It must be a purchase made online. If made online she would have the receipt.
Maybe she did buy them in-store when she went to Chicago, just that she never/rarely used the products until recently?
Okay, possible, again, what a coincidence isn't it!
(unless her most recent visit to Chicago was before these products came out, but I do not know when these products were released and when her most recent visit to Chicago was. So yeah, possible)
But like she said, which idiot would steal things and make it that obvious?
You'd be surprised how confident some criminals can be when they commit crimes. It's not much of a question of stupidity, it's that they do not think they will get investigated. For the sake of argument, it wasn't really THAT obvious if you were to believe Fly's claims—"I found those products under Hana's bed in her boxes with pink cover. I found the raspberry body butter by her window next to her bed. Meanwhile I found the for the facials and body mists on top of her drawers."
"I know she's been in my room before so I am not surprised she could be very detailed with the location where she 'found' her things."
Right, very detailed indeed, if this was really a framing attempt, I must say that it really takes a genius mind to be so consistent with all the details, so perfect I tried but find no contradiction at all in her claims.
Maybe in rare cases, it's really possible that the actual guilty side is so smart and make no contradiction, whereas the innocent side for some unknown reasons has a lot?
What else can I say. There are already so many rare coincidences in this, if all the claimed coincidences are true, that yeah maybe this is a rare case where innocent side has a lot of un-explainable contradictions whereas the actual guilty side has none. I rest my case.

Actually I don't quite get this metaphor. Did she mean that there could be a third person doing all these to cause drama between her and Fly? If so then I suppose her metaphor means:

Third Person put a pencil she stole from Owner in Victim's hand and Third Person takes a photo of it to send to Owner. Of course Owner would get mad at Victim, although it wasn't Victim that stole the pen. And Third Person would appear to be the good kid. 

But in the real case, it was not the Third Person who took photos of it. It was the Owner herself who discovered Victim having the pen. (wanna make metaphor also fail... sigh)

Anyway, whether also the so-claimed framing attempt was done by the Third Person or the Owner herself, all the contradictions listed above stay the same. Scroll back up to read again.

What is your stance now?

I am not trying to imply that she lied about being sick and bed-ridden for many weeks. What I try to imply is, even if she was, she could still do all those actions we suspected she did?

Sorry but
a) she could have done it before she got that sick.
b) his presence in the house barely proves anything, I mean, do guys really notice the appearance/disappearance of every single beauty products in a girl's room?
c) do you know that testimonials by relatives/partners of suspects are not taken into serious consideration in trials?

Most importantly, do you think I can convince myself to stay neutral when there are SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS to her "I-was-framed" claim?

How many? The 5 significant ones listed above, plus some other which I listed in the previous post (especially about the credit card fraud, although I am unsure, but I suggest you to scroll down to Update 5 of my previous post if you missed out that part).

There is no way that both were telling the truth, you know it. NO WAY.
One side was lying.

I understand that most people do not wish to stand against anyone no matter the person is at guilt or not. Most people will try their hardest to not make any enemy even when it comes to people who do mistakes or do not wish to admit their mistakes. Totally understandable.

But if you are telling me that after other people and I pointed out to you so many contradictions in her claims, and the possibilities for these contradictions are so unlikelyand all the evidence suggest something, and although you can't give valid reasons yet you still believe that she is somehow really innocent and framed...

Of course I might analyze/interpret stuff wrongly so if you find any flaws in my logic, please point it out by leaving me your precious thoughts in the comment box below. Involved parties are welcome to defend themselves too.

(so don't accuse me of saying things at places you cannot defend yourself, my comment box is always open)


Okay now I will attach the full conversation between the four of us. I am sorry (not really) I cannot resist adding sarcastic remarks to it... this is my usual blogging style lololol. 

end of conversation

We have come so far, now let me guess what is on your mind...

Why do you keep picking on her?! Can't you have mercy?!
Why would I want to pick on someone if the person did nothing for me to pick on? You expect me to still look up to someone who did all these and talk about her respectfully?

It was never my goal in life to treat bad people nicely like an angelic saint. I cannot even pretend to be one...

You are such a nosy bitch! She didn't do anything to you! 
You are right, when any injustice happens right before your eyes, you should close your eyes or look away. My mom taught me so because she wanted me to keep myself out of unnecessary troubles (actually I am not sure if I should use past tense in this sentence). But then sometimes when I was bullied, framed, betrayed, she was frustrated that why people other than my close friends did not stand up and voice out for me. But still, ignorance is bliss?

What do you mean by *facepalm* up there? You judge me just because for some unknown reasons I still choose to believe that she is innocent???

No, honey, no... I don't judge, I evaluate.

Thank you for reading and

"Peace out, suckaaa"

(Rizal, this is how much I love you)

ps: I told my mom about my involvement in this drama and she was worried that I would get beaten up hahahaha. I told her that the Bible says it's a sin if you see injustice and you ignore or if you see that good can be done but you do not anything about it. My mom rolled her eyes 180 degrees and scoffed at me hahahahahahahaha. "You shouldn't have chosen Genetics. Go study law or forensic then you won't have anxiety attacks every now and then... because if you get to solve puzzles plus scold and humiliate your opponents everyday you won't be depressed at all. You will be so happy and I don't have to listen to your repetitive rants every week." -mom


I met up with Fly and she showed me their personal text conversation. Guess what? I am 100% positive that you-know-who is lying now. Yes, 100% positive.

No whatever gibberish "coincidence" or "I was framed". I swear upon the lives of my unborn children that I am not saying this without solid proof—

She. Lied. 

Fly did not even demand you-know-who to pay back the monetary loss. She had to reorder all the items and some cannot be delivered before she goes back to Malaysia, hence she has to trouble friends in Madison and pay extra money for postage to have those items delivered to Malaysia to her friends.

I think the contradictions in her statements and the lack of evidence on her side already suffice to prove to people who is the real victim and who is telling the truth. But if someone has no shame and try to do anything funny to redeem her ego... she should get ready to have her reputation crushed completely.


  1. omg Rizal as a gif is genius hahaha. plus someone's hand randomly smacking him in the head at the end lol.

    1. It was James' hand hahaha. Harry and I were witnessing the whole scene at the same table!

  2. Crazenne u should blog about najib rosmah cincin and Atlantuya. Lol

    1. Aiyer don't want lah too main-stream. lol