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I write verbose posts about polyamory, love, lust, and self-discovery on my other blog Victoria's Imaginarium.

Friday, June 3, 2011

Can't win a debate? Try Personal Attacks.

If you did realize the rants on my FB page... this is the 'FB war' with that couple you guys have been looking forward to read :)

This blog post contains explicit rudeness with English and Hokkien swear-words which show the real bitchiness within me. Do not continue reading if you wish to give me any sort of negative feedback later on.

The root of all arguments:

Both parents? Or parents + another party? Name me another party please?

Let me make clear our different POV first, to help you keep track with the debate. You know, some people love to create distraction/confusion when they know they are not on the winning side... then in the end you will find double standards in their debate.

Their POV:
1. Parents do not bear full responsibility to avoid having their children grow up becoming bad people. (here we are referring to really bad people, for example, people who 'harm another for money' as stated as in the status above)

2. It is wrong to blame the parents when their children screw up, since the children have a choice to become what they want to become.

3. Those who put blame on parents are 'fucked-up's. (inferred from quote by the boyfriend-'any fuckups blame moms')

My POV (and also Soong Kit's):
1. Parents bear full responsibility to avoid having their children grow up becoming bad people.

2. Kids with good parenting will not ever become bad people, because kinship and morals (implanted by the parents, of course) hold them back when they face temptations.

3. If bad influence from other parties can easily make your children bad people, it simply means your parenting is a failure. (so don't you dare say 'they have a choice to become what they want to become'... your parenting should set limit to this choice of theirs!!!)

Okay, back to the debate.

I use the phrase 'Sound pretty much a fallacy?' because I never expected them to understand my point, therefore challenging for rebut if they really did think it's a fallacy.

And here came the first personal attack.

Pity my mom what? We're talking about bad parenting causes people to be the 'fucked-up's, why do you shift to my mom? Pity her? Oh so you meant to say I am a fucked-up now? You call people having POV different from yours 'fucked-up'? I see, I see.

Pity your mom :(

Then the status writer cracked some lame joke trying to calm the situation.

My attempts trying to go along with the lame joke. But my replies did mean something. Something that sounds more understandable if put this way:

Why in the first place did the wives let the husbands ejaculate semen inside their vagina if they are not sure they can be good mothers?!!!

(by this I also mean 'why in the first place did the husbands ejaculate semen inside the wives' vagina if they are not sure they can be good fathers'. I insult people of my gender first so that you don't call me a feminist.)

8 hours after I challenged them to give me one example, the girlfriend realized that they could never win this (if you want to help them, go ahead, even better if you can find one whole list, I will write you another post as a sign of appreciation for correcting my POV), and decided to launch the second personal attack, which sounds like a cursing to me.

I say 'sound like' in case you think it cannot be regarded as a cursing!

From her reply, I guess she holds the POV that 'parents are not to be blamed if kids screw up' so that in case their kids screw up (I say in case, don't act smart and tell me I'm cursing their kids! 'In case' and 'wait until' are different!), they don't have to feel guilty or be blamed. No?

If I criticize the thought-to-be-guilty party I shall be cursed is it? Then I cannot criticize at all lah!? If I criticize a driver for killing people due to careless driving skills, let me guess... 'wait until you kill people in car crash, I wonder what you will say?'

The comparison seems unfair because the situation I make sounds too serious? Isn't screwing a kid's life serious too? You never know what harm he/she might bring to people around okay? And the parents are responsible for the failure of fulfilling their responsibilities okay?! How can you say parents do not bear full responsibilities for educating their kids?! Cannot be held fully responsible when the kids screw up?!


Oh and, so clever, you put me in their stinky shoes--thinking that this will make me change my words is it? SORRY lor, my parents have taught me not to point fingers at seemingly-existing 'other parties' to escape blames when I fail my responsibilities lor, guilty means guilty understand???

For this I swear on my future children's and my lives!

So I reminded them about their failure of providing me even just one example. Also I tried to hint them that getting personal in a debate is not a very good habit, but I already expected them to
at best: ignore
at worst: find excuses for themselves and attack me more.

It wasn't their first time to oppose my POV and got personal when losing the debate. I once commented on Soong Kit's status about 'Don't fear to do mistakes! Do as much as you can! Regret later!'.

What I meant was this.

And the oh-so-smart lady read my comment and replied something like: 'Some mistakes are not to be made. I wish you regret when your life is screwed up, good luck XD'

Apparently she really loves cursing me I dunno why. I don't even know her.

Initially I was only mad at myself for leaving comment under the status of someone who has uncivilized (sorry but I really love to use this word, although I am not very civilized too) friends on his Facebook, now that these 2 hypocrites (I will justify myself for calling them 'hypocrites' soon) went beyond civilization and this educated WSK still sat on his all-comfy coach watching the drama, I was super mad up till a point I was about to swear an oath that I would never, ever comment under his status anymore... of course after I was done with this one!

Lucky dude, he stood up before I made that oath:

See? I told you. People love to create distraction/confusion when they realize they are not on the winning side.

Hello lady, we are talking about parents who do not carry out their responsibilities, since when are we putting blame on 'moms the ones who careS and doES the most'??? (Btw, 'ones' is singular or plural?) And how high the chances are for these good moms to have their kids screwed up?! Why did you use the generally good image of most mothers to distract us from blaming bitches?

Let me guess again... trying to make us forget about your previous ridiculous comments?

So far they ignored my question about personal attacks. So I pressed further to bring out the worst in them. So that I can also have an excuse to let out the worst in me. lol

Oh yeah, forgot the 'pointing fingers brings you nowhere' phrase.
Putting blame on the responsible party = Pointing fingers?

Okay okay. Putting blame and pointing fingers basically mean the same thing. But since when is pointing fingers at the responsible party leads people nowhere?

I dare you not to point any finger at any responsible party when any problem arise.


Go and ask all people to keep their fingers in their pockets. I want to see how civilization will proceed.

And here came the interesting finding-excuse part:

Wah if everybody sees things like you do then our society mampus! Defamation shall not be a civil crime and no one should be sued for demeaning others because 'it's only a figure of speech'!

Yay peace! I can say whatever I want to people I dislike! Woi kan nin na chao ci bai she never teaches you how to discuss about things properly ah, why she so fail wan raise a daughter/son so fail like you!!! Eh wait until you have children I want to see lor, they sure screw up wan because your parents no teach you properly and of course you can't teach your children properly too, your future blood line no hope already. I say like this can? Never mind wan lah, just the way I talk mah! Problem?

Don't fucking tell me words don't matter! I suka hati say those to you can? CAN?

You say it's just a figure of speech?

You also please put yourself in my shoes and think!

Believe it or not, when I typed this I already foresaw the third personal attack coming. Hypocrites won't justify actions of others' like how they justify theirs, even when the actions are similar!

Don't tell me my insult is more offensive! Scroll up and see their insults to me! At least I don't curse their future kids! Because doing this is somehow unnecessary since their future kids will have a pair of parents who preaches on 'you become what you want to become, not my fault if you screw up'... LOL kidding lah!

Like I told you, when they do it it's okay, when people do it it's not:

The 3rd personal attack. She said NO OFFENSE leh :D

I think I know why when I did it, it's 'an insult to my parents' while when they did, it's not! You know why? Dunno? Have a guess lah! :D

'Cuz they preach on 'don't put blames on parents' ma! So whatever they do does not reflect parenting! I insist on otherwise so my parents are to be blamed! And my parents's parents too! All my ancestors bear the bad name because of me! OMG shame on me!!!

I think I should add a postscript to their POV: Only apply to themselves!
As for other people, refer to my POV!


By that time I was not sure whether to post this in my blog, but then the lady pushed me further by saying 'this is getting interesting and fun! We should post on Fail Blog!'

I did not manage to printscreen it because SK deleted it soon after she left the comment. :( But I don't mind at all if they want to post it, I dare to say it so I dare to stand for what I said, after all, I did not launch any personal attacks before they did! Whatever lah! :D

You think the war ended after SK deleted the whole thing? No.

Of course it was not me, I don't like talking any further to uncivilized people after I fail to educate them.

The boyfriend POSTED ON SK'S WALL:

Let's see, hate is too strong a word... But YES, I hate hypocrites with double standards, especially those who preach on 'do as I say, not as I do'.

So basically you can say I hate you guys! Congratulations, you finally got something right! :D

I officially announce that yes I hate you. The end.

'Don't judge, all beings are equal'
Yes I remember I preach on this several times! Does not mean I must keep quiet or say thank you when other equal beings attack me! Don't tell me to save my time on these people, I am in holiday and I am freaking free and even if I'm busy I love a bit of drama! What! I never say I am holy! I won't be so hypocritical acting holy. Eww. I show you the best and the worst in me, I don't apply double standards, and I don't change my words to escape blames. When I am wrong it means I am wrong.

Feel so happy now. Now proceed to my next post about Notty


ps: The word 'fully' should not be taken absolute (i.e. not 100%), since there must be some exceptions anyway... but I believe that exceptions are very very rare, hence negligible.

I do not intend to mean that bad people bear no responsibilities on whatever wrong they do. They still do, and they should bear the consequences. "Parents should be held fully responsible" is on the moral ground, not that parents should take full punishments meant for the children.

Thanks for the reminder from Kage Ong. No worries, won't write another post to attack you (obviously you did not notice the #1 in disclaimer part! Aha!), just embed your name here :P

Update (3/1/12):
I regret masking their names. Dare to say dare to go public... right? Since it's just "the way I talk", "just a figure of speech", "no offense taken"...... then I supposed there was nothing wrong with what they typed.

Since there was nothing wrong with it, there shouldn't be a problem to reveal their identities too right?

Right, Jon Lee and Celine Hor ?

After all they think their speech was justifiable, so by posting this and revealing their names, there should be no harm to them, i am only insulting my own parents...?


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